Tip Top 25 in helmets, smaller
                                                    Home

Comments on the AP College Football Poll: November 28, 2021

1) Georgia 12-0
2) Michigan 11-1
3) Cincinnati 12-0
4) Alabama 11-1
5) Oklahoma State 11-1
6) Notre Dame 11-1
7) Ohio State 10-2
8) Mississippi 10-2
9) Baylor 10-2
10) Oregon 10-2
11) Michigan State 10-2
12) Brigham Young 10-2
13) Oklahoma 10-2
14) Utah 9-3
15) Iowa 10-2
16) Houston 11-1
17) Pittsburgh 10-2
18) Wake Forest 10-2
19) San Diego State 11-1
20) Louisiana 11-1
21) North Carolina State 9-3
22) Clemson 9-3
23) Arkansas 8-4
24) Texas A&M 8-4
25) Kentucky 9-3

Others Receiving Votes
Wisconsin 8-4
Texas-San Antonio 11-1
Appalachian State 10-2
Minnesota 8-4
Purdue 8-4
Mississippi State 7-5
Army 8-3
Penn State 7-5
Fresno State 9-3
If you've been wondering why I haven't been fixing the AP college football poll every week, it's because I don't bother to fix the AP poll's top 25 until after the final edition is released in January. When there are no more games to be played, there is no longer any wiggle room for ignoring head-to-head results and season-long performance. But before that, there can be plenty of room for wiggling.

For example, I think that 11-1 Houston is highly overrated at #16, as their loss has come to an unranked 6-6 team, and they have not beaten a team that is ranked or even close to ranked. However, if Houston beats #3 Cincinnati in the AAC title game this week, that will show that the sportswriters were on to something, and the Cougars will have finally earned a spot in the top 25. And if Houston loses, they will drop in the ratings anyway, though probably not as far as they should.

Obviously, while I will not fix the AP poll until January, it is late enough in the season that I now feel comfortable commenting on the weekly poll. I will go ahead and point out problems with the poll that would be outright errors if the season had ended this last weekend, and no more games were to be played. This can also give voters (in the AP or in any other poll) an idea of potential errors to avoid going forward.

Playoff Committee Rankings

UPDATED -- Comments on the 11-30-21 College Football Playoff rankings are now posted at the bottom of this article!

I will also add some comments on the playoff committee rankings to this article after that top 25 comes out on Tuesday, but only if there is anything in those rankings to address that is different than the issues with the AP poll that I am already addressing below.

Because the playoff committee will not be ranking teams in a final post-bowl top 25, I will not be fixing any of their rankings like I will the final AP poll top 25 in January, and for that reason, I will not be fully commenting on the playoff committee's top 25s.

Now let's get to commenting on the problems with the latest AP poll...

Minor Issues With the Top 10

There are several minor issues I have with the top 10 that may be more a matter of personal preference than a matter of logically incorrect choices. I'll cover those briefly here.

11-1 Michigan has taken an upset loss and 12-0 Cincinnati has not, so I'd rank Cincinnati higher. Michigan may have played a tougher schedule, but as it stands now, each team has beaten just one ranked opponent, and Cincinnati has actually beaten a higher ranked team than Michigan has.

Alabama and Oklahoma State have each taken an upset loss (and to rather lowly-ranked opponents), while Notre Dame has not (their loss came to #3 Cincinnati, ranked higher than Alabama and Oklahoma State), so I would rank Notre Dame higher than Bama and OSU (though the Tide and Cowboys have notched better wins than the Irish have).

Ohio State's high performance (wins by more than a touchdown), coming against a schedule that includes 6 teams that could be rated in a top 25, is so impressive to me that I would rank them right behind Michigan (though Ohio State does have an upset loss, and Notre Dame, ranked right in front of them, does not).

Finally, I think Oklahoma should be moved up behind Baylor, as they have taken no upset losses (on the other hand, the Sooners have not beaten any ranked or near-ranked teams).

Michigan State

#11 Michigan State has a better relevant record than the 3 teams ranked just ahead of them, and should be rated higher than those teams. MSU has taken one upset loss (8-4 Purdue), but that is balanced out by a huge upset win over #2 Michigan. Oregon also owns a big upset win, over #7 Ohio State, but Oregon has taken 2 upset losses (3-9 Stanford and #14 Utah), leaving them effectively one game worse than MSU for the season. As for #8 Mississippi and #9 Baylor, each of those teams has taken an upset loss to an unranked opponent, and neither has an upset win to make up for it.

San Diego State > Utah

Here we have a pretty simple head-to-head issue. #19 San Diego State (11-1) has already beaten #14 Utah (9-3) this season, and they should be ranked higher. Utah does have a terrific "upset" win over #10 Oregon, but they also have an upset loss to unranked 7-5 Oregon State. And just in case you're suffering from the delusion that the PAC 12 represents a tougher schedule than the MWC, allow me to inform you that the MWC went 5-5 against the PAC 12 this year.

And even if Utah beats Oregon in the PAC 12 title game this week, as seems likely, as long as San Diego State wins the MWC title game, they should still be ranked ahead of Utah (and so should BYU, who also beat Utah this year). In such a case, we would have the following clear victory chain: San Diego State > Utah > Oregon.

On the other hand, if San Diego State loses next week, then Utah can be rated higher than them regardless of what happens in the PAC 12 title game.

Wisconsin > Purdue > Iowa

Here we have another head-to-head issue, though not as simple as the previous due to Iowa's misleading 10-2 straight record. 8-4 Wisconsin beat Iowa 27-7, 8-4 Purdue beat them 24-7, and both teams should be ranked ahead of the Hawkeyes. Iowa is 10-2 solely because of their ridiculously easy schedule: they have not played a single top 25 team! Well, they played 2 teams that should be ranked in the top 25, Wisconsin and Purdue, but they were embarrassed by both of them. The scores were just not close.

Since Wisconsin beat Purdue 30-13, our victory chain is like so: Wisconsin > Purdue > Iowa.

Let's look at this in more detail, starting with Wisconsin vs. Iowa. Again, Wisconsin crushed Iowa 27-7. Wisconsin did take upset losses to Penn State and Minnesota, both of whom Iowa defeated, but Wisconsin beat Purdue, whom Iowa lost to. This leaves Wisconsin and Iowa with the same relevant record, but Wisconsin owns the head-to-head tiebreaker (and by a dominating score). Wisconsin's other 2 losses came to #2 Michigan and #6 Notre Dame, irrelevant when comparing Wisconsin to Iowa, as Iowa faced no team remotely as powerful as Michigan and Notre Dame, and both are ranked far higher than Iowa.

Purdue vs. Iowa is even clearer. Again, Purdue crushed Iowa 24-7. Purdue did take one upset loss (to 8-4 Minnesota), but they also own a huge upset win over #11 Michigan State, who is ranked higher than Iowa. So Purdue has a relevant record that is effectively one game better than that of Iowa. Purdue is 8-4 because they played #6 Notre Dame and #7 Ohio State, and again, Iowa played no team as powerful as either, so those Purdue losses should be disregarded when comparing Purdue to Iowa.

Houston

As I stated in the intro to this article, I think that 11-1 Houston is highly overrated at #16, given that their loss came to unranked 6-6 Texas Tech, and they have not beaten a ranked or nearly-ranked team. They have done nothing to merit a top 25 slot at all. Still, if they beat Cincinnati in the AAC title game this week, then the Cougars will have earned a spot in the rankings.

Pittsburgh

I also think 10-2 Pittsburgh is highly overrated at #17, and in fact I think that all 4 of the ACC teams that appear in the rankings this week are overrated. The ACC is currently a very pathetic 34-20 against nonconference opponents, so let's just keep that in mind when assessing teams from the conference.

In the particular case of Pittsburgh, they have 2 upset losses to unranked teams (Western Michigan and Miami-Florida), so they have a worse relevant record than do a bunch of teams ranked behind them, including San Diego State, Arkansas, and Texas A&M.

Clemson > Wake Forest

#22 Clemson (9-3) stomped on #18 Wake Forest (10-2) 48-27, and they should be ranked higher. Clemson has one more loss than Wake Forest does because they played #1 Georgia, and in fact that 10-3 loss is a terrific performance that should help their cause rather than hurt it.

Furthermore, even if Wake Forest wins the ACC title game this week, Clemson should still be ranked higher than Wake Forest, and in that case, the relevant teams should be ranked as such: Clemson > Wake Forest > Pittsburgh.

Mississippi State > North Carolina State and Kentucky

Our 4th ranked ACC team, #21 North Carolina State (9-3), should not be ranked at all. #25 Kentucky, also 9-3, should also not be ranked, and both teams have the same problem. That problem is that both lost to 7-5 Mississippi State, both by 2 touchdowns, and both teams should be ranked behind Mississippi State, which is to say, out of the top 25.

I've obviously been down on the ACC here, but Kentucky is actually a worse case than North Carolina State. Kentucky has not beaten a single FBS team with a winning record, and in addition to Mississippi State, they took a loss to unrated 7-5 Tennessee (another team they should not be rated ahead of). They have also posted half a dozen poor performances, including a 5 point win over an FCS team.

Louisiana

11-1 Louisiana is also highly overrated at #20. Their loss came by 20 points to 5-7 Texas, and I'm not sure that they should even be rated ahead of the Longhorns. Their schedule has been lousy, offering them no chance to prove much of anything, and their performance has easily been the worst of any team in the top 25. They've won 6 games by a touchdown or less, against 5 terrible Sun Belt teams and an FCS opponent.

Penn State

As covered above, I think that 8-4 Wisconsin and 8-4 Purdue should be ranked, both ahead of 10-2 Iowa. Well, there's another unranked Big 10 team that I think ought to be ranked, and that team is 7-5 Penn State. Penn State has taken one upset loss, to Illinois, but their other 4 losses have come to teams ranked #2, #7, #11, and #15, so they have a better relevant record than that of #17 Pittsburgh, as an example. Their performance has been very strong, as their losses have been close, and their wins have largely been dominating. Their best wins have come over Wisconsin, who I think should be rated, and 6-6 Auburn, who I think should be close.

Comments on the College Football Playoff Rankings 11-30-21

Historically, the College Football Playoff (CFP) rankings have either been comparable to the AP Poll or superior to it. However, for the second year in a row, the CFP's post-Thanksgiving ranking is significantly worse than the AP poll's top 25. Here are the differences that I think matter, and which system I think made a better choice:

Alabama and Cincinnati

The AP poll has 12-0 Cincinnati #3, 11-1 Alabama #4, and the CFP committee has those teams in the opposite order. Given that Alabama lost to the committee's own #25 team, and Cincinnati beat a better team than anyone Alabama beat, and Cincinnati posted 2 close wins (touchdown or less) over unrated opponents, Alabama 3, I have to say that the AP poll made a better choice here.

Iowa

As shown in the article above, Iowa should be rated behind 8-4 Wisconsin and 8-4 Purdue, who are both unrated in both systems. The AP poll has Iowa #15, while the CFP gang has them at #13, so the CFP has done a worse job here, since they separate Iowa even further from 2 teams they should be rated behind. The AP poll now leads 2-0.

The ACC

As I noted in the article above, all 4 of the rated ACC teams were overrated by the AP poll, and the CFP voters rate all 4 of those teams (Pittsburgh, Wake Forest, North Carolina State, and Clemson) even higher than the AP poll does. Against nonconference opponents, the SEC is 48-8, the Big 12 24-6, the Big 10 33-9, and the ACC a woeful 34-20. Pitt has 2 losses to unrated teams, Wake 1, Clemson 1, NC State 2. The committee is putting far, far too much stress on straight records, and so not really taking strength of schedule into account, and they appear to be under the misguided delusion that all the major conferences are of comparable strength. They are not.

The AP poll did a better job of ranking all 4 ACC teams, so that's 4 more points for the AP poll, giving them a 6-0 lead.

Utah

The AP poll has Utah #14, while the CFP ratings put them #17, and I'll say the CFP committee did a better job here, since Utah should be rated behind San Diego State (who beat them; more on this in the article above). The CFP rankings at least have Utah closer to #19 San Diego State than the AP poll does. The AP poll's lead is now 6-1.

Houston and Louisiana

As discussed in the article above, I think that both Houston and Louisiana were overrated by the AP poll, and since the CFP committee rated both teams much lower than the AP poll did, I'm giving the CFP system 2 more points. The AP poll lead is cut to 6-3.

Texas A&M and Kentucky

The AP poll has 8-4 Texas A&M rated higher than 9-3 Kentucky, while the CFP committee has them in the opposite order. In the article above, I implied that Kentucky was the worst inclusion in the AP poll's top 25, so obviously I think the AP poll did a better job on this issue. Repeating what I said above: Kentucky has not beaten a single FBS team with a winning record, and in addition to losing to unrated Mississippi State, they took a loss to unrated 7-5 Tennessee (they should not be rated ahead of either team). They have also posted half a dozen poor performances, including a 5 point win over an FCS team.

Our final score is AP poll 7, CFP committee 3. Easy win for the AP poll.

It makes me wonder why this group should be in charge of deciding anything about the postseason.

2021 TipTop 25

My little experiment, a top 25 that began with a preseason ranking based entirely on picking teams at random out of a hat, is now retired for the season. You can check out the last top 25 in that experiment here.

Home